Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. This 170-grain .30-30, for instance, drops 7.7 inches at 200 yards and 26.6 inches at 300 yards. would follow that tradition. Would certainly make things easier, from a tooling standpoint. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. If we compare the .300 Win. WITH BAYONET. The .358 Win. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. Id submit that for most shooters and hunters, cartridges like the .40 S&W and the 10mm Auto are the first things that come to mind when they think of semi-automatic .40 caliber cartridges. 94 1946 excellent condition. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. Another article, said at first Winchester wanted to use the 32 WSL for WW2, but military brass wanted 30 caliber, so Winchester designed the 30 Carbine, still popular today. Upon firing, the breechblock is delayed in its opening by its weight and spring pressure until the rising chamber pressure overcomes the inertia of the bolt. Using basically the same action, they introduced the Winchester Model 1910 semi-automatic rifle along with the .401 Winchester Self Loading (.401WSL) in the spring of 1910. Joined: Dec 2008. 95% BARRELS, 85% RECEIVER AND N WINCHESTER 1400 20GA 28 MOD. I too have an M1, and also two 1907's - both from the first year of production. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. The trouble is, they didnt sell. Does anyone know if any gunsmith ever converted a 30 Carbine to 32 WSL? The .35 Rem. plowed fresh ground. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. I have quite a bit of money into these guns now but I have one of each. This .350 Legend from Federal, for example, can launch a 160-grain bullet about 2,300 feet-per-second while this .30-30 fires a 150-grain bullet about the same speed. Since .22 caliber cartridges of that time period were not loaded to uniform ballistics, Winchester specifically developed the .22 Automatic Winchester Rimfire cartridge for reliable functioning in the Model 1903 rifle. In a now-famous story, Roy Weatherby launched his wildcatting career after he lost a wounded deer on his first hunt in 1942. GunGeek # 7867163 07/03/13. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. Sold to Iver Johnson in 1983, the Enforcer continued in production until 1986. The M1 and M2 carbines continued in service during the Korean War. . Very well cared for rifle, there is a barely noticable very small chip in the stock .Click for more info. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. the barrel, receiver. The performance of cartridges paled in comparison to the .32 Remington (170gr bullet at 2,180fps for 1,794 ft-lbs of energy) and .35 Remington (200gr bullet at 2,080fps for 1,922ft-lbs of energy) cartridges Remington introduced with their new autoloading rifle, the Remington Model 8. Show Only Guns Paul tests 357 magnum against 30 carbine out of a couple revolvers.Shirts and patches: https://www.tristartrading.com/collections/paul-harrell-official-store. And the Winner Is Mag. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. Either cartridge would have had better knock down power than 30 Carbine. But these arent normal times. It was a 94 takedown that was returned to Winchester (per the family to be re-barreled) it was barreled with the front end of a Winchester takedown 55, comple 7677 Winchester Model 94AE, 30-30, NRA limited to 500, engraved Deer on receiver Adjustable rear sight, Winchester butt plate. We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. Thats a question I just dont understand. This gun is in excellent condition in its orignal hardcase with keys. Equipped with 10 round magazine to go along with a slightly beefed up forened and buttstock to resist cracking, many Model 1907 semi-auto rifles were acquired by many police departments to serve alongside the Thompson submachine gun in .45 ACP in an effort to give their officers more firepower. The Model 1907 enjoyed a long production run of over 51 years and Winchester finally stopped manufacturing it in 1958. Its not a long-range powerhouse by any means, but it can be loaded with more aerodynamic .30-caliber bullets that offer higher ballistic coefficients (BC). I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? Cold Shower Face And Body Wipes | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Review: Taurus G3 Tactical | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Video Review: Browning Citori Hunter Grade II Over/Under Shotgun | NRA Family, Video Review: Savage 93 Minimalist Rifle | NRA Family, Video Review: Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 4.5 OSP in 10mm Auto | NRA Family, Make Mine Metal: The Alloy-Frame KelTec P15 | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Smith & Wesson Performance Center M&P9 M2.0 Competitor | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, NRA Women | New for 2022: 20-Gauge Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus, Preview: Springfield Armory 1911 DS Double-Stack 9 mm Pistol Lineup | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . Shortly before World War II, the U.S. Army started a "light rifle" project to provide support personnel and rear area units a weapon with more firepower and accuracy than the standard issue M1911A1 .45 ACP handgun and half the weight of the standard issue M1 Garand .30-06 rifle or the .45 ACP Thompson submachine gun. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. It is built on an aluminum- NO NYC, CT buyers please send us FFL or State Permit. Midway USA, for example, which is among the best at keeping ammo in stock, reports 35 varieties of .30-30 while only 15 offerings of .350 Legend. You will never get the recoil spring back in it. While similar to the M1 carbine, it lacked the stock, thereby making it a handgun. The story of the .351 Winchester and the .401 Winchester Self-Loading cartridges began with the Winchester Model 1903 rifle chambered in the unique .22 Automatic Winchester Rimfire cartridge. Remington Green/Yellow: 1983 fps. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. Even today it occupies a strange halfway point between pistol and rifle cartridges, being similar in design to a long pistol round or magnum revolver round with its straight-walled case and round-nosed bullet, but loaded with rifle powders designed for the 18 barrel of the handy little M1 Carbine. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. .351 s.l. bumping this, I obtained a magazine for the first one shown up top - for a mere $64. It shoots well and is light and easy to carry while hunting. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Indeed, Winchester used the .32 Self Loading as the basis for development of the .30 Carbine cartridge in the early 1940s. (For context, Federals highest-BC 6.5 Creedmoor clocks in at .607.). Both the Legend and the .30-30 are most comfortable in the medium-to-large-game category, but the .30-30 offers a slightly wider array of bullet weights and applications. The loud blast is the most oft-mentioned characteristic of the .30 Carbine cartridge when fired in a handgun.[10]. The 357 Magnum fired a 158 gr SP at 1240 fps. Cartridges are (usually) widely available and dont cost more than the .350 Legend. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. From a four-inch (102mm) barrel, it launched the standard GI ball projectile at 1,277ft/s (389m/s), producing an average group of 4.18 inches (106mm) at 25 yards (23m); the military decided not to adopt the revolver. Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Flintlock Misc, Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Matchlock/Wheellock Misc, Century Arms International (CAI) - Rifles, Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Rifles (perc), Winchester Rifles - Modern Bolt/Auto/Single, Winchester Rifles - Pre-1899 Bolt/Single Shot, Century Arms International (CAI) - Pistols, Colt Automatic Pistols (.25, .32, & .380 cal), Colt Single Action Revolvers - Modern (22 Cal. It is a light rifle round[2][3][4][5] designed to be fired from the M1 carbine's 18-inch (458mm) barrel. The work must have been done in the tool shed, but the rifle was a shooter. I'd go with the carbine if you plan to shoot it much. and the 6.5 mm Rem. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. About 1916 vintage. This understandably led to mistakes and confusion among the buying public regarding the proper ammunition for the rifle and hampered sales of what should have been a very popular rifle. This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. That suggests the difference, at least in part, is due to the bullet. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. The .30 Carbine is so weird in part because its descended from an innovative and influential but little-known family of rounds developed by Winchester in the early 1900s. Area Code: 715. Both cartridges use an unusual bullet diameter (.352 and .406 respectively), but its still possible to find soft point, FMJ, or cast lead bullets to use for reloading. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. I think if enough people went online and contacted Winchester and Hornady, and asked them to make up a run of ammo in 351 WSL and 401 WSL in 20 round boxes, perhaps they would make a limited run. Versatility However, as a bottleneck cartridge, the .30-30 has a slight advantage at longer ranges. Still, the mild working characteristics of the .30 SL allowed the design of a very lightweight and simple gun, in a similar fashion to how the blowback-friendly .32 and .380 ACP rounds allowed the Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT to be much smaller and lighter than their blowback counterparts. There were over 7million m1carbines made, probably a million left according to estimates world wide. Mag. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. Just bought the 22 sl. up to 0.358 inches and dubbed it the poor mans magnum.. The .308 Win. I have all the calibers but short the 401 s and the 22 autos ,can you reload or sell a dox of each. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. The 351 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1850 fps, this is much higher than the 357 Magnum fired out of a lever action rifle, a 180 gr SP at 1500 fps. Shootability The .351 WSL cartridge is a up-powered stand-in for the .44-40 or .45 Colt, throwing a 180 grain bullet (softpoint or FMJ) at 1900 fps. The .358 Norma Mag. Realistically, the Winchester Model 1905 was only useful to control vermin around the farm or for taking small game. The 32 WSL duplicated the 32-40 ballistics. Jordan Sillars Feb 3, 2021. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. "the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!". The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. in the Big Bore Model 94. The 32 WSL fired a 165 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 32-40 ballistics, the 32-40 was considered good for deer. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. The Model 351 C is an AirWeight variation of Smith & Wesson Centennial Model. *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. In 1966 there was a gold miner that was hunting with Dad and I. Since the sights on Model 1907's consisted of a blade front with open rear, its practical range was about 150 yards. Been looking for a deal on a nice M1 Carbine these last few months in preparing for the eventual Zombie apocalypse. Even the military wouldnt use semi or full auto ( hand held) fearing soldiers would shoot too much ammo. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or jacketing type. and the .32 Win. That version is in some dispute, with evidence that Whelen himself developed the cartridge or at least worked with Howe on its development. The 401 WSL would seem to have been a good choice for a large caliber AR 15, but they came out with the 450 Bushmaster instead. While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. I had Clay at prophet river in Alberta bring in 22 ;auto ammo for my 1903 22sl, they work good and are a run that Aquila runs once a year I believe, I ended up buying at least 800 or more rounds. This is the Winchester Model 62A chambered in .22S,L,LR. It credits the .350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. One would think the 32WSL, 35 WSL, 351 WSL and 401 WSL would still be in use today. Rifle Carbines are available in 40 S&W, and some use it to hunt deer and wild hogs, but even the 32 WSL and 35 WSL beat it in ballistics. "[8] The evaluation also reported that "[c]ommanders noted that it took two to three engagements at least to settle their men to the automatic feature of the carbine so that they would not greatly waste ammunition under the first impulse of engagement. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short.
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