They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). percent. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations 9 seconds later the CVR ends, or at least what is available on youtube ends. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. - paragraph amended at 23:09, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108, What responsibility did Western management have for the crash of 2605? It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. per night. I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets after the truck collision. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. Report. The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. accident had to be one of human factors. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. Is it not discussed in the reliable sources? The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. USER_MINI_PROFILE. It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. It's pilots loved the plane. A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. Acheter. Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. done flyin'." [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWwyVT-nEA. and our He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. check out the. A part of the CVR is widely available online. $73. Whether or not this reputation was warranted is up for debate. There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships - paragraph split at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Reading the "Jumpseat: A Tale of Twisted Fate" book from surviving flight attendant Eduardo Valenciana - he wrote of a violent impact and then a dramatic attempt at a climb with full power - note, not two impacts but one. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. Norton Air Force Base, this time period typifies the normal reaction time of Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. However, this could very well have been the initial touchdown. Privacy Policy. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. 1 mois de voyages illimits. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 #10741679. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships They had "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach": it looks as if they were intending to maintain a lateral separation from the ILS path (to 23L) so as to keep them in line to come straight in to 23R. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. [3] 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a The ICAO circular makes no mention of this, presumably because it wasn't determined to be a contributing factor. . The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. He was concerned about their work and Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. I can't guess why it would be hard to obtain. He discredits ALPAs conclusions. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air It is strange. Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.180.19 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created by SquisherDa (talk) at 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], The NTSB seems (from our article) to have believed tht the crew improperly chose to descend below decision height while 'not yet quite' having visual contact with the runway: "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach". (But the pilots did anyway, probably as they did far more often that didn't end in some kind of horrific hull loss, and perhaps as Gilbert was doing in '79. ) By using the words well known problem, this means historically in the time period of the accident, but also today in 2020, especially when not hand flying in planes more advanced and more automated than the DC-10-10 that Gilbert was hand flying in 1979. Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. In addition, he was having enough of a problem (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. - paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. Quoting . Cookie Notice Can we correlate these similarities to previous and future accidents at that time of the DC-10? So the CVR may in fact be missing details. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. long work days or from shift changes. Making things even more confusing the recorder was apparently pierced and an erase mechanism was reported to have been briefly actuated. (?) I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. on it, except than the official one. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . 28 The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. Our large helicopter section. Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? Browse more videos. He seems to remember that soon after this the planes nose rose and the engines were screaming. - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. This penetration came in contact with the erasure circuit sending a momentary electrical impulse to the bulk eraser, causing a wedge- shaped segment of the tape to be erased.". that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. . The CVR has been widely available for years. A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. Privacy Policy. Our large helicopter section. Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. Interestingly Gilbert had specified he didn't want to fly with Reichel and Walsh but was apparently told to fly with them anyway for one last time which of course turned out to be the last time he would ever fly. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. I haven't been able to find more info. instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed
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